11-15 2010

Telerik Sitefinity 4.0 and the public’s reaction

The week of November 8th 2010, Telerik conducted a great Webinar presented by my dear friend Gabe Sumner, Sitefinity’s Chief evangelist at Telerik.

During the webinar, Gabe showed many features of the upcoming Release Candidate and also shared with the community, almost 1000 webinar attendees, the new pricing model, the new partners model and their new tiered approach.

I have to admit, I have been working with Telerik for the last 6 years on all their products as a partner, consultant, trainer and most of all a friend of the company and a close friend to their management and lots of their wonderful employees worldwide.

A lot of the people I talked to after the webinar took the information very well and were very excited to start a new chapter with Sitefinity 4 for themselves and for their customers, nevertheless some of the people also had a problem with the pricing model and I respect both sides and understand both argument.

I would like to first of all assure you that I am not an employee of Telerik and I have no influence on Telerik’s decisions or future plans whatsoever.  So my opinion here is mainly just that, my opinion

In the last 4 years I have been involved in building over 60 web sites in Sitefinity worldwide, some were for small business (dentists, schools, non profit) some were for medium size businesses in the USA, Europe and Australia and some were definitely for large corporations worldwide as well (Oil companies, major Universities, Government  agencies and Fortune 500 corporations).

I am aware of most of  the major and minor CMS systems out there and I have respect for all entities whether commercial or open source.

I remember the days when I had to implement CMS systems by hand for customers and also the days when I just paid for licenses on behalf of my customers in the mid 1990s.  Just to give some of you an idea that serious corporations used to license CMS systems like PlumTree and Epicentric per CPU.  I remember paying $250,000 per CPU during the .COM days for these products.  Yes you read that correctly , a Quad Machine running PlumTree in 1996-1997 cost $1 Million dollars to just run the software, without any customization or integration, with way less features than Sitefinity offers today in 3.7

In the not so distant past, you could download a good CMS system like DotNetNuke, or Rainbow, or any others that are open source for pretty much FREE, nowadays, most of these companies offer a commercial version that is very much in line with the new pricing offered by Sitefinity 4.0

Is Sitefinity 3.7 a Good Product?

I would say YES after building over 60 web sites commercially using this technology.  Does Sitefinity 3.7 have issues? Of course, which product doesn’t?  I always hated Nolics for instance (The Database ORM tool behind Sitefinity 3.7), I never used the Wiki module as it is not even close to the maturity of other Wiki systems on the market, I did not like the separation of Taxonomies between modules and other small things but in the end I was always able to work around these things and get the best out of Sitefinity and my customers always LOVED the solutions we delivered at the end.

 

Pricing:

Did I like the fact that I can offer Sitefinity to my small businesses for $899 per domain? Of course, my customers loved it too!  Was it fair?  I really doubt it.

Can you imagine asking a customer to pay $899 to get the entire CMS system for their domain with unlimited admins and users with all its functionality and offer your service as a consultant and trainer for a couple of hours that will cost the customer more in one day of service than what they paid for the entire system?  It was always awkward and required a lot of explanation.

With big companies it was even worse, we always demoed Sitefinity and its features in person or over Gotomeeting and they always loved it and once we say the product is $899 per domain, a lot of doubt starts happening.  why is this product so cheap? what is the catch? how come the competition asked for 10 times more? there must be something there that we are not seeing.  That is what almost every time went on with Oil Companies or FORTUNE 500 companies.

The other bad business, in my opinion, was the fact that I can build a site for a Dentist for example that require just ONE login username to access the system and update all its content with 20 to 25 pages and a dozen controls for the same price ($899) that a company that made $44 billion dollars in profit last quarter for using Sitefinity 3.7 on four load balanced machines accessed by over 4000 users to control content worldwide and hundreds of pages (localized), yes for $899.  No, I did not think that was fair.  Something had to change! I am actually glad Telerik is going the route they are in pricing as I would like to see the product succeed, mature and reach new heights in the CMS industry.

Some of us underestimate the effort it takes to have top notch people answering your questions within ONE day no matter what it is and how much code or research it requires, folks that cost money and Telerik has been one of the BEST companies in the world in customer service.  They truly care for their customer and depend on their success.

Did Telerik think it might lose customers with the new pricing model? I have no doubt!  These are extremely intelligent people and these decisions are always calculated.  They have to answer to a Board of Directors like any other corporation.  When your company is employing over 300 great people worldwide and in 2010 the Sitefinity team became the largest team inside of Telerik, someone had to ask the question, what does Telerik need to do to take Sitefinity into the future technically and financially.  Continuing to sell Sitefinity 4.0 for $899 meant that we would not have Sitefinity at ALL in the next year or so as it is not a valid option financially for Telerik and the Board might have shut down that project altogether if it is meaningless to the future of the company.

Will some of you stop using Sitefinity because of the price, Yes I am sure you will and I can assure you it pains the team at Telerik to see that happen, I know because I spoke with them last month in Bulgaria and they WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

To have 10,000 mom & pop shops using Sitefinity for Free or for a minimum cost and use 80 to 90 percent of the support whether through the forums or through the ticket system, is just not a good model.

To give away the product to an oil rich company to run their public and internal business in several countries for anything less than $20k is just not a good business either.

There is a lot more to chat about in the next couple of month, but for now as my blog is getting enormous I would say, give it a shot and try to understand the pricing and what you really need to get your customer on board.  I think you will be very pleased and very proud! Telerik is offering to help customers, partners and agencies in training them on how to sell Sitefinity 4.0, that is Awesome!

 

As for Falafel, we will start offering 3 training classes within 10 days of the release of the product on January 14th 2011:

  • Business Users Training
  • Admins, Designers and IT Training
  • Developers Training

The cost will be very similar to Telerik’s:

  • To participate in the first 5 minutes of the training, will be free
  • For Community training and Non Profit, you can see me teaching the first chapter with a maximum of 10 pages from the book.
  • For Standard training, you can see the whole training but during localization and analytics, I will have to mute my microphone
  • For Pro and Pro Unlimited, you are free to sit in on the whole enchilata

That last part is Just a joke folks 

Love to all

Lino

13 Comments

  1. 1 Neil 15 Nov
    Can I have the sound back for standard training alrightee.

  2. 2 Sahil Malik 15 Nov
    I had the pleasure of checking out sitefinity 4, it is a truly amazing product. The ease of use, extensibility, and thought to user experience was simply mind blowing.
  3. 3 Michael Russell 15 Nov
    I'm still compiling my thoughts to post to the CEO thread, but here are my two cents.

    We switched to Sitefinity from Ektron, partly because of cost and partly due to a recommendation by our AMS vendor. When we switched to Sitefinity, it was hardly enterprise ready.  Performance of the admin back end was abyssmal.  Data loss bugs were abound.  It's missing what would be considered core features for most CMS's (scheduled publication of pages, for example).  It's what we expected for the price.  While working with Telerik, we were also doing code work of our own to work around the bugs and improve the platform.

    Now, Telerik has made no secret of the fact that licensing changes were coming, but have been extremely silent about the details until now, and the resulting changes have shown that while Sitefinity may have grown into an enterprise-ready product over the last few years, Telerik is far from an enterprise-ready company.

    From easily exceeded arbitrary limits with no affordable means of adding to them (can't just by new CAL's or extra pages via license key, for example) to the loss of functionality for existing licensees to the minimal notice of these changes, it shows that Telerik has little to no understanding of the needs of not only their existing customer base, but also the needs of the enterprise market.

    Because of the annual budget cycle, license changes are usually discussed at least six months in advance, usually a full year out, especially those that involve cost changes.  Companies need time to properly budget for these changes...and nobody budgets for a 2,200% increase.

    Reduction or removal of features for existing licensees are also discussed around the same timeframe.  Companies need to plan how to either budget for the upgrade should their businesses rely on those features or create a plan on how to live without it.

    I'll admit, my first thoughts about the licensing change were feeling angry and betrayed.  Those have shifted to doing a cost/benefit analysis on what to do next and where to spend our limited development resources because while I love the platform, it went from being cheapest in its competitive set to second-most expensive, and we can't retain our current costs without losing the major functionality we've relied on.  Their pricing decision moved this from a developer decision to a business decision.
  4. 4 Steve 16 Nov
    Linos to be fair, Falafel is far removed from the needs of common developers .  I have a client right now who needed a simple module for a couple grand and Falafel quoted her a couple hundred thousand for it...

    I don't think the problem is with the pricing per say, but the concurrent user limits right now.  Sticker shock has worn off, now we're trying to think how we can still use sitefintiy for our current client base.
  5. 5 Lino Tadros 16 Nov
    @Neil: Sound is back on :)
    @Sahil: Miss you body, how are you!
    @Michael: I understand and respect your point of view, hope the end result is beneficial to your needs and plans. I am happy to chat with you regarding whatever you need regarding SF 4 in case you have questions and need a one on one chat to solidify your thoughts.  All the best.
    @Steve: I was sorry to read your comment.  Like Windows Phone 7 commercial say: "Really?"
    Two hundred thousand for writing a module? that is not true and never happened at Falafel as I am the one that approves all quotes at Falafel. No reason to bad mouth our company Steve, I was trying to help.  BTW, My company and I have been helping the common developer for over 20 years all over the world and that is why Falafel is the 3rd fastest growing company in the Silicon Valley 3 years in a  row, I doubt we are removed from the needs of common developers.  Regards.
  6. 6 Steve 21 Nov
    Apologies Lino, my intention was not to bad mouth Falafel, you do have quite a good company with a fantastic reputation, and you don't get that way by pumping out garbage!

    My comment was that you boys deal with the upper tier of clientele where a large pricing model makes sense for everyone.  I would say you'll probably get more 20k contracts than any other partner.  But us little guys still want to deliver more than expected with the lower-end tiers, and we're severely handy capped with the concurrency implementation.

    I asked the client to doublecheck the quote and it was $50,000...so quite drastically less than what I was initially told (my apologies, feel free to edit the above comment), but still far out of the range of a small web presence.
  7. 7 Jacques 30 Nov
    I think Michael Russel has elocuted what so many are feeling right now.

    Head over to the following link and you'll see that many people are feeling the same way and the pressure is mounting for Sitefinity to provide some sensible answers... ones that exclude the words "value add"

    http://www.sitefinity.com/blogs/martinkirov/posts/10-11-10/sitefinity_4_0_licensing_model.aspx

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